BSL-62 Cathryn McShane-Kouyaté

Senedd Cymru | Welsh Parliament

Bil Aelod Arfaethedig – Mark Isherwood AS | Proposed Member Bill - Mark Isherwood MS

Datblygu'r Bil Iaith Arwyddion Prydain (BSL) (Cymru) | Development of the British Sign Language (BSL) (Wales) Bill

Ymateb gan: Cathryn McShane-Kouyaté | Evidence from: Cathryn McShane-Kouyaté

The need for legislation

The British Sign Language Act 2022 requires the UK Government to issue guidance about the promotion and facilitation of the use of British Sign Language (BSL). This however only applies in England and not to the Welsh Government or public bodies in Wales such as councils or the NHS.  The British Sign Language (BSL) (Wales) Bill aims to place equivalent specific duties on the Welsh Government and public bodies in Wales.

Question 1: Do you think there is a need for this legislation? Please provide reasons for your answer.

Yes.  British Sign Language is not treated on a par with English and Welsh as a native language of Wales and should be.  The Equality Act does not safeguard rights for Deaf BSL users to access services in their own language.  The standard of BSL used in Welsh schools is of such a basic level that many Deaf learners suffer from language deprivation and global educational delay that many never recover from. Parents of Deaf children are unable to access courses without considerable personal expense.  As a BSL/English/Welsh Interpreter, Deaf people tell me weekly about issues they have securing interpreters and access to basic services enjoyed by the majority.

Question 2: Do you agree or disagree with the goals that the Bill seeks to achieve? Please provide reasons for your answer.

Yes - the ultimate goal is to ensure greater equality for Deaf BSL users in Wales through language parity.  How can you disagree with that?

British Sign Language

Question 3: Do you agree that the Bill should include proposals to promote and facilitate the use of BSL and its tactile forms?

Yes

Question 4: Do you agree that the Bill should support the various Welsh regional dialects of BSL?

Yes

Question 5: Do you think that the term ‘BSL users’ should be replaced with ‘BSL signers’, recognising that BSL is a language which includes both deaf and hearing signers? Please provide reasons for your answer.

Yes.

I have used both, but prefer BSL signers because 'BSL users' has connotations suggestive of the term 'service users'.  While 'signers' is equivalent to 'speakers', as in 'Welsh speakers' etc

Question 6: Do you think that the term ‘deaf BSL signers’ can be used when referring to BSL users/signers who are medically or audiologically deaf?  Please provide reasons for your answer.

Yes.

I feel it is clear.

Deaf Communities

Question 7: Do you agree or disagree that deaf communities:

a) currently have a voice in the design and delivery of the public services that they use? Please tick the answer that most applies and provide any comments.

Strongly disagree.

Currently there is underrepresentation of Deaf BSL signers in all public domains and in disability forums, and public consultations.  Usually these are conducted in spoken or written English that is inaccessible or an interpreter will be provided for one limited time slot and therefore is not inclusive.  Many service providers will opt for the easy option of consulting with hearing staff of organisations that work with deaf people, however these people cannot and do not represent the grassroots Deaf community.

b) should have a formalised voice in the design and delivery of the public services that they use, especially ones targeted at deaf people. Please tick the answer that most applies and provide any comments.

Strongly agree.

Statutory obligations to communicate with local Deaf people and communities will reduce the tendency to consult with unrepresentative organisations and the marginalisation of Deaf BSL signers.

Question 8: Are there any specific communication methods used by deaf people that you would like the Bill to reference/include?

British Sign Language

Video relay services

Barriers that exist for deaf people

Question 9: What do you believe are the main barriers that currently exist for deaf people and/or their families in the following areas. Please tick all that apply and provide information/examples on each area:

Education; Health; Social Care; Transport; Other Public Services used by deaf people and their families; Workplace.

All spheres of public lifeAll spheres of public life.

Establishing a BSL Commissioner for Wales

The Bill proposes to establish a BSL Commissioner who would promote and facilitate the use of BSL, and would have the same powers as other minority language Commissioners such as in the Welsh Language (Wales) Measure 2011.

Question 10: Do you agree or disagree with the proposal to establish a BSL Commissioner for Wales, and, do you have any different suggestions or alternatives? Please provide reasons for your answer.

Yes

Question 11: The proposed remit of the Commissioner would be to:

§ formulate BSL standards;

§ establish a BSL Advisory Panel;

§ produce reports every 5 years in BSL, Welsh and English on the position of BSL in that period;

§ provide guidance and a process for public bodies to promote and facilitate BSL in their respective domains;

§ establish a procedure for the investigation of complaints.

Do you agree with the proposed remit of the Commissioner, and are there any other provisions you would like to include in the Commissioner’s remit? Please provide reasons for your answer.

This seems a reasonable remit.

Question 12: Do you agree that the BSL Commissioner and the BSL Advisory Panel members should be fluent users/signers?

Yes

Question 13: Do you think that the proposed BSL Commissioner and Advisory Panel should prioritise the following. Please tick all that apply and provide reasons for your answer.

Early years language support for deaf children and their families; Enabling deaf users/signers to lead the development of policies and implementation of services for BSL users/signers; Improving BSL provision in education; Access to interpreters in public services.

All are vital to ensure meaningful equality and inclusion.

Question 14: Do you agree or disagree with the proposal to place a duty on the Welsh Government to prepare and publish an annual BSL report? Please provide reasons for your answer.

Yes.

The proposed legislation needs to be monitored, evaluated, and public bodies need to be held to account otherwise real change is unlikely to be achieved.

Question 15: Are there any other issues that you would like to raise about the Bill and the accompanying Explanatory Memorandum?

Question 16: Anything else?

I have attended countless public consultation services at Deaf forums across South Wales in the past 20 years (involving Councils, the police, health boards etc).  The issues raised regarding lack of access to services for Deaf BSL signers have been the same with little change despite the feedback provided.  Legislation is required to effect real change.